2011 30 June UTEP visit to RPI

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Dinner Wed night 29 June. Please sign at the bottom if attending in person or virtually (for food count and technical support if remote).


2011 30 June Agenda

2011 30 June UTEP visit to RPI minutes


0) Welcome (in 30 minutes)
  0.1) Overall meeting goals (PRIMARY: setting directions for future of provenance work;
      -  whitepaper on aspects of PML that PIL should incorporate) - - sponsored projects, evolution, W3C, directions, human staffing -  Deborah
      -  RPI's projects. http://inference-web.org/wiki/Projects and http://tw.rpi.edu/web/ResearchAreas/KnowledgeProvenance
      -  UTEP's projects (Paulo),  http://trust.utep.edu/ (need to add i^3)
      -  PML's lessons learned: what PIL should take. - position statement to w3c prov-wg.
  0.2) Recap of why PML is awesome - what are our driving, fundamental, distinctive principles?
       (discussion points maker: Paulo)

PML in Action

1) PML in (Real World) Action (9-10:30)
  1.1) Tim's scenario  (is any of this informed/driven by water 
                        quality portal work? if not, add requirements from this experience)
                       (what my system does, how it does it now, what I'm trying to do, why I can't do it)
  1.2) CSIRO - Stephan
  1.3) NASA Goddard's use (should be close to tweaks) (Nick)
  1.4) PML Validator - Jiao: http://inference-web.org/wiki/Overview_PML_Validator_Status_0630
  1.5) (TBD) Patrick review RPI e-science projects using provenance

W3C prov-wg review

2) prov-wg review and strategy (10:30-11) (1-2)
  2.1) Present W3C scenario and discuss potential PML implementations/  
         concepts vs. implementation; formal spec vs. conceptual spec.
       (what are the advantages of PML and where - NOT where does PML fall short.)
  2.2) Is it remotely possible to make PML PIL-compliant (given there is no PIL)?
  2.3) What has this group learned that can be transferred to 
       the future provenance standard? - make a document to give them?
  2.4) FRBR (Tim and Jim [Michel])


prov-wg telecon (11-noon  (may drop off early unless strong reason not to) -- only one person will attend (TBD)

working lunch at winslow (noon-1)

Open discussion

3)  Open discussion about PML  (2-4)
  - Why should we NOT just throw out PML? (Tim wanted this to start as common ground)
  - What is truly bad about PML? (No, we need "Why is PML really good?")
  - Can we fix PML weaknesses? (No, what are its strengths)
  - How can we keep doing research on provenance without having anything to replace 
    PML? (Why can't OPM/others replace PML in our research?)
  - What does PML have that OPM/others do not have?
  - PML is very closest one to the PIL (TL: s/PIL/FRBR/?) 
    (SZ - not sure on that statement - RE: PIL)
  - Distinction of content and it's encoding - but machines only 
    work with the encoding. Pushing the artifacts around the machines affects 
    the content that we actually care about, but we are still dependent on 
    the encoding to transfer the content :-(
   (Tim suggest deferring 3 to mailing list discussion (or a paper?))
4) Outstanding Requests to PML development and usage (4 -4:30)
  4.1) Paulo's requests -- new ontological properties
  4.2) (Optional) Tim's use cases, need feedback
  4.3) (Optional) Tim's instance analysis

Wrap up

5) conclusion and review (4:30-6)
  nail down important points of the report of this workshop
  planning for next steps 
  -  gallery of IW apps/tools ( one per slide, for PR purpose), include citations, potential youtube video demos if possible.



Wednesday Dinner RSVP

WHAT: wine/apps

WHEN: 6pm Wed 29 June

WHERE: Deborah's house


  • Deborah +1
  • Allen (by train from NYC)
  • Tim (via car from Rome)
  • Paulo +2 (via car from Rome)
  • Jim McCusker +2 (via car from Troy)
  • Li +0
  • Nick Del Rio (via car from DC)
  • Patrick
  • Hugo (via car from Rome)
  • Ping - needs ride to/from troy - can someone take her?


  • Stephan
  • Yangfan


  • Jiao
  • Cynthia (3,000 miles away)

Thursday meeting

WHAT: Provenance bonanza!

WHERE: Winslow.

WHEN: Thursday 30 June 2011, 9-5pm

(affiliation RPI unless noted)


  • Deborah
  • Paulo/UTEP
  • Allen Renear/UIUC (confirmed in 22 June email)
  • Tim
  • Nick Del Rio/UTEP
  • Stephan
  • Li
  • Jim McCusker
  • Jiao (PML in Action)
  • Ping through lunch


  • Cynthia (remote)


  • Hugo Porras (UNconfirmed)
  • patrick, yangfan, Jim Myers

Thursday Dinner at Winslow after meeting RSVP


  • Deborah
  • Allen
  • Stephan
  • Paulo +2 (assuming that we can have an early dinner - we need to leave no later than 9pm)
  • Nick Del Rio (driving to Rome Thur night)


  • Tim (returning to Utica for Rome work on Friday)
  • Cynthia (remote)
  • James Michaelis (remote)


  • Nick
  • Li
  • Jim +2
  • Hugo
  • Patrick
  • Joanne
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